SPEAKER_02 0:35

Greetings and our salutations and welcome to Imbibe Cinema. The Imbibe Cinema podcast is brought to you by the Blue Whiskey Independent Film Festival, other known as other other nice. He is two drinks and everybody. Yes, I am, otherwise known as Bwiff. We are currently accepting submissions for our 2024 festival. We seek independent character-driven films of all lengths, styles, and genres. To learn more, visit BWIFF.com. I'm Festival Operations Director and MC Jonathan C. Leggett, along here with my co-hosts, Executive Director, Michael Noges, and Cinema Centennial Program Director.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

Trisha Leggett. Why does she always sound like in this episode?

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Which each of us have uh pre-selected, screened, and discussed with each other, uh, because we really just kind of want to talk about Christmas movies, not a particular movie in uh general.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

This is a philosophical podcast about what makes a Christmas movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Bonus episode. Yay! Christmas bonus.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Uh the cocktail we are imbibing is a Trisha Leggett original. Uh we are lovingly calling either the Fizz Bourbon or the Furbin, uh, which is like the Furbin.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

I like the Furban.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

I like Furbin.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

It sounds like what do you what are those those things? Furby?

SPEAKER_01 2:05

No. Um, more like a fizzing wing. It's a fizzing.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Drink a bourbon out of a Furby. Out of a Furby head.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Um would you like me to tell you what the drink is made of?

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Sure. What is the drink made out of?

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Christmas special cocktail by Furban. It is my favorite things. These are a few of my favorite things.

SPEAKER_05 2:26

Oh dare you.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

Bourbon, ginger ale, and uh cranberries. With an orange peel slice for decor. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

And and if you buy uh cranberry the way my wife buys cranberry.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

Look, there was a shortage. It is two days to Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

It is in that canned gelatinous form, uh, where it literally makes that noise when it hits the plate. When it actually gets out of the can, you're so surprised. Yeah, she screamed with joy. Um but I will state if you're going to use that, uh use a kitchen aid and and a uh whisk attachment, uh, because otherwise the the first one we made was Pulpy. Uh pulpy is a very it was a gelatin skew. Uh but this recipe, as well as pictures, are going to be available on our website, imbibesinema.com.

SPEAKER_05 3:15

Woohoo!

SPEAKER_02 3:15

All right, so we we we're we're gonna do uh a possibly popular or unpopular opinion here. Um we we've discussed previously that uh we think that there are four types of Christmas movies. Um and uh we we we know that uh that one of the uh the selections is considered unpopular uh of an opinion. Um but the four types of Christmas movies that we see uh are Family Struggles, the true meaning of Christmas, Christmas romance, and the last one being takes place during Christmas.

SPEAKER_03 3:49

And that's the one that's mostly debated over Die Hard.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Yes. Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 3:53

But I I think that Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is an amazing Christmas movie, and that's just because I love Christmas. Mm-hmm. I mean Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and Christmas and Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Right. But again, I mean just uh if it takes place during Christmas, it is considered a Christmas movie. So that's your stance. That is my it's an unpopular opinion, but I believe 100% it's a Christmas movie if Christmas is involved, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:14

Right, and it can be like and Die Hard is a very strong contender for that. Okay, okay, because not only we've talked about this previously, it hits all those notes. It's yes, it takes place during Christmas. Christmas is involved in the film, it is their family struggles, it's a family that's uh having marriage issues and they have kids, and they're trying to like get through that over the holidays. Um and then in addition to that, there's the meaning of Christmas. No, um Yeah, there's the meaning of Christmas. I I I no no, it's about the world bigger than yourself because the meaning of Christmas kind of movies usually talk about how there's more than just you in this world, that something greater exists, whether it be um, you know, Santa Claus or it uh an angel or uh God or uh just being a decent human being for humanity in general, like Scrooge. Uh yeah. So like that kind of like higher than you know, uh higher not higher calling, but like there's more to this world than just yourself. Yes. And what you do affects other people. And in Die Hard, he saves the Christmas party.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

True, though you know, at least from the the struggle of more of those like Scrooge and all of those, he doesn't necessarily change over the course of the film from being somebody who is only about himself to somebody who is uh actively from the get-go, he's pretty much but that that's that's the Scrooge formula.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

You look at It's a Wonderful Life, arguably the same kind of thing, except it's a good guy who gets beat to hell his whole life for being a good guy. And then they come up at the last minute and we're like, but see, you're a good guy, and so good things happen. They just took a really freaking long time to get there.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Nice guys finish last. Sometimes if they start at all, but you know, you you just gotta yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

If you're a really good person, you won't go to jail.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

Right. Even though they will try to put you there.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 6:06

Everybody will become very unrealistically good. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

No, I do believe in what you put out there will come back to you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:15

Oh which is a very good uh Christmas-e sentiment. But like the the mob sentiment of goodness. I don't know. Does that happen?

SPEAKER_03 6:24

I really do think so. I think that when somebody mob mentality does everything angel mentality, well, especially around the holidays. I mean, look, that's where all the donations for all the causes come. Like this is where they make their money, right? Christmas is a moneymaker, not just for charity, but for everybody who needs to get into the black. Yep. Right? Right? Yeah, sure. Right. So both consumerism and uh Catholicism, because I'm just gonna go with the C words. Um they they both financially depend on Christmas. Yep. Yeah, Christmas keeps the economy afloating.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Yes. So uh it's Christmas. I will state of the movies that we did select, we did not select any movie that does just take place during Christmas. Right. There's always next year. Yeah, there is always next year uh for for that one. Um, but so the the the films that were were selected, Michael, you selected The Holiday. Mm-hmm. Fantastic film, uh, which I again watched just for you know the refreshment. To refresh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Um I didn't get to watch it to refresh, and now I really want to see it after it. I'm gonna see it after this.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

Oh, that's fair. Perfect. Uh but that one covers the uh the romance bridge. Uh Trisha, you chose.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

Yeah, I chose It's a Wonderful Life because it is the standard by which all are measured.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

There you go. That that's fair.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

And because there's some really angry back, like there are people who really, really don't like that movie. And I look at it now and I'm like, I see why. I mean different reasons, but I see why.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Yeah. I I mean it it it does help that she finally tied me down and made me watch it officially last year. I had seen was it two years ago? I can't do it. Honestly, yeah, uh years ago.

SPEAKER_04 8:05

So a hundred years ago. So you got tied down by COVID?

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Uh probably. But then that's very physical manifestation of COVID in rope form.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

I just got his chains for Marlin.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

We'll we'll get there, ladies and gentlemen. Muppets Christmas Carol is one of the best. Um, and then uh I chose the family struggles uh with uh what is also a possibly um very rife uh film, but The Ref. Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

No, it's one of those movies that people who uh don't like a lot of swearing in their Christmas movies might but but they should really watch it. But they should watch it because I think who was it that saw it? It was a family member who saw it and was like, there's a lot of vulgarity in that movie, but I really enjoyed it. Oh, your grandmother. My grandmother. Your grandmother. Wow. She doesn't like that kind of talk, but she was like, it was a good movie.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

They swore a lot.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

So I mean, was there a particular film or or anything about the four types of movies that either of you would want to um discuss at nauseum?

SPEAKER_03 9:07

I don't know, like uh there's the supernatural kind of thing that seems to happen in Christmas stories, or they're like really sad. Like sounds like a lot of tragedy or violence in a Christmas movie in America.

SPEAKER_04 9:19

Yeah, I think the growing trend of violence in Christmas movies or in holiday movies, I would say, like, let's turn this into a slasher film.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_04 9:28

Uh or like Santa being a slasher.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Yes. See, whereas I want to see Krampus.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

But no, I would say, well, what's what uh what's the Christmas movie with um Oh no, my brain is not working.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

If only there was this thing called IMDb that I couldn't do.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

No, no, no, I can see his face. It doesn't help.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

He has eyes. Was he into something?

SPEAKER_03 9:48

No, he's he's a bad bad Santa.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

Oh, Billy Bob Thornton.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

Right, so that's violence in in a way. Even um in uh Christmas Carol, it's dark.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

It's a ghost story, but it's a Christmas story, especially the most recent one of it, if memory serves me correctly, with Guy. Was it Guy Pierce?

SPEAKER_04 10:08

I was like Guy Fieti.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

He's being haunted by by foods that he had previously made. No, it was Guy Guy Guy Pierce was just in Was he? It was uh FX. It was a show instead of um an ep uh mini series, if you will. But yeah, uh Andy Circus was the ghost of Christmas past.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

So I am curious. I based on what I had heard about that one, it well, you want to talk about dark. Like apparently the entire thing of that one was dark.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

It's a wonderful life. Yeah. The guy's about to commit suicide.

SPEAKER_05 10:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

He's gonna kill himself because he's gonna go to jail, and then when he's not around, when he gets shown his life without him in it, all these other people are dead. Yes or have suffered tragedy. Like poor poor Mary is a librarian and now she has glasses.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

Mm-hmm. And her hair is in like a ponytail or a bun. And nobody and she never married.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

That is what happens because when George doesn't marry you, it's over.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Nobody wanted you.

SPEAKER_04 11:13

Well, was it when when the great report no, it's no, you won't like it. It's it's the worst thing ever. Ever it's the worst. She's an old maid.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Yeah, an old maid. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

That was her fate. Yeah. Not an abusive relationship. No. Not that she somehow dying. She's not she's not dead. No, no.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

She suspended her.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

She just couldn't get married, and therefore her life was over. Yeah. Hello, 1946.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Yeah. But uh interestingly enough, talking about committing suicide.

unknown 11:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

That that is also in the holiday.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Oh, it is? Mm-hmm. Remember that part.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Yeah. Uh uh That's right. Kate Winslit turns on her gas because she's about to turn on a pot of tea, and then this is after uh she finds out that the love the love of her life, the unrequited life of love of her life, uh, Jasper is actually getting married. Right. Um, and so she's at home, and it it's because Cameron Diaz uh messages her on this home swap app or th site um that she realizes what she's doing, opens the window, and even says a new low. A new low. Oh yeah. It's interesting that uh we're talking about Christmas movies, and Suicide has now been on two of the three that we have selected, and I'm trying to do that.

SPEAKER_03 12:35

Well, no, I mean it's it's about dark Christmas movies usually tend to be about dark times.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

Right? And overcoming and finding the light and a new beginning. And technically, Christmas, the fourth Sunday of Advent is the beginning. Well, Advent is the beginning of the calendar for Christianity, I think. I'm not sure. But it moves, it's fluid. Easter's different every year. I don't understand it.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

It's a pagan holiday.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Yeah, it is. That's why they're chasing the pagans. Like we're nail it down. Where is it?

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Constantly. Constantly chasing pagans.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

That's where all the rabbits come from. Oh now Easter makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Yeah, it's horrible. No, it's good. Oh, okay, whatever you want. Just keep giving me the chocolate.

SPEAKER_03 13:19

Why is the crucifix and a chocolate linked to ghost?

SPEAKER_04 13:23

Thanks, Eddie Izzard.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yeah. The brown of the chocolate and the brown of the cross.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

So, really quickly, what I was trying to say about heaven, not that I'm like a crazy like old person calendar thing, is the fact that like it's uh the beginning of a calendar year. That Christmas movies are usually about new beginnings, yeah, about something ending and something starting uh anew, and usually the death of something and the birth of something else.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Do we want to talk? We we wanted to talk about a w it's a wonderful life. Yeah as you know, a jumping on the street.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Poor George, his life is not wonderful. It is not. He has these dreams of going off and doing something that he wants to do, and his whole life is no, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_04 14:04

And and what makes it even worse is it's you know, like there's at least two times in the movie where he's leaving, he's on his way, or because I think it's yeah, he's leaving to go on this trip and then college, and then his father passes away. And and then uh he gets married and they're about to go on their honeymoon, and then bank on the bank. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

So well, and then the war and then the war, yeah. There are a lot of outside forces, and it's not just like you know, a series of catastrophes that happen to George and it's a bad timing. A lot of the time, George just makes the right decision and ends up paying for it. Right. He sacrifices his uh funds for his honeymoon to help keep the town afloat.

SPEAKER_04 14:52

Yes. Well, and actually, uh Mary is the the really the one that that does that. She's the one that says, uh, here we go, let's let's use this.

SPEAKER_05 15:01

Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:01

And you know, um, I I think actually that's probably the best way for that to have played out because if he had done that without consent consent, she was basically saying, Let's do this, we've got to do the right thing. Right, and he's and he jumped on board right away.

SPEAKER_03 15:15

Right, and he's about that all the way up too. And it's like that's a nice thing, like here you know you're married to somebody who shares the same values. Well, it's probably one of the things that she loves about him. Right, because he does uh do things for other people, like the whole point was he was just gonna run the business until his brother w finished college, came back, and then he got to go. They were gonna take turns. Yes and everything went sideways. Right. Um his he can't hear out of one ear because of not just because of saving Harry, but because his first boss like boxed his ears basically uh after that had occurred. He suffers for these decisions repeatedly. Um and yeah, some joy is had like him and Mary uh happily married, they have kids. Um but then you have the way of weight of every parent is you know the kids uh well we they're energy vampires. We love them, but they do like uh they scare you and they like when Zusie uh Zuzu, Susan, uh Zuzu uh is sick, and they you know, okay, sick kids it's exhausting. And not only because it's exhausting, but you know, you worry. And so like there's just all the real things about like trying to keep your eyes from falling down. All these things that uh weigh on him, and it's just like everything is a burden in his life, yeah, and we're seeing that side of everything. And then when you flip the script, you find out the life that we have is actually pretty damn wonderful if you think about what could have been.

SPEAKER_04 16:47

Yes, without all the things that you know, if you weren't here um wouldn't have happened.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Yeah, all those mistakes he prevented.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

And I think it's interesting. Another reason uh I brought this film uh up is it's interesting that this is a movie that was on over and over and over and over again. Um I think for a while the choices were the bishop's wife with Carrie Grant and uh David Dividend and Loretta Young. I remembered all that off the top of my head. And um and I could be wrong, but anyway, it's a really good movie too, by the way. Um but that uh those were like the two movies for Christmas on the television for a very long time, uh predominantly this one, and I think anything it was over oversaturated, overplayed, and people like but like Christmas Carol's been around since like Dickens. So you have this that's been remade a hundred times, even Miracle on 34th Street that's been remade a few times, but nobody's remade It's a Wonderful Life. I find that very interesting because the message transcends. I think today, if I were to make that movie today, I would make it um a mom, and I would think like she's got a part-time gig, she's got the kids, she volunteers here, she's an ATO, she's uh driving everybody around, she's trying to make sure that her husband is doing well, like she's doing 800 things and she feels like she's failing at all of them, and it's never the thing that really she wanted to do to begin with. And that to me is the modern It's a Wonderful Life. It would also be a sad movie, but it was gonna be a good movie. Somebody make that movie, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 18:23

Well, I'm gonna drink. Well, and the argument too is I mean, really, it's a wonderful life is is a sad movie as you're going through it. I mean, yes, there are like ups and downs like life. And but uh what what I do think is really interesting too is the structure of the film. You know, the beginning where you you know, you know, we go up into the sky and we're seeing the stars, and we're like, okay, this is a little strange. And um, you know, we meet Clarence, a little white dot um that glows when he speaks. Yeah. And uh and then we come down to Earth, and um, you know, we hear in the very beginning, you know, Clarence, you know, um meet basically um George Bailey, and then you forget that this ever happened, and then all of a sudden Clarence shows up like two hours later. The midpoint past the midpoint, it's really it's like the beginning of the third act, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

And you have I hadn't seen the movie since I was a kid. And then uh I was like, You've never seen it so wonderful life, and I made John see it.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

I'd never seen it all the way through. We were emotionally on TV, you turn it on, clip in the middle. Yeah, you're at a Christmas party, you're at least seeing it in the background.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

And how many movies is it referenced or um and it's always the same two scenes that you see over and over. But um my memory of it also was like Clarence, and then you're like, oh yeah, he doesn't show up until like way late in the way late.

SPEAKER_04 19:54

Yeah, I mean, really, he's only in a small part of the film. Yeah. Well, one thing I was thinking when I was watching it more recently, which I think would be interesting because you're talking about um, you know, nobody's remade it. I think like a different following a different character. Um I I feel like there would be an interesting story like what if what if you you told it's a wonderful life and like Potter was the main character. Well, that's Scrooge.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

That is, yeah. I was about to actually say uh uh to a degree, you know, where Clarence shows up. You're actually talking the ghost of Christmas past or future is essentially where he shows up, and he's showing not the future as much as he's showing the present if you weren't here. So he's showing what would happen if your past hadn't shown up. So they have to show the ghost of Christmas past to show where all the steps happened, and then say, all right, let's just erase you from that.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

I wonder if that's where this story originated is instead of following a bad person, let's follow a good person. Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

And this is a Frank Capricornio. Yeah, the Capric Capricor. Oh, I'm drunk. Capricorn? Capricorn. And you're you're only halfway through your first time telling you two. Capra-esque, which I think is a term coined by Aaron Sorkin. Sure. With the American president.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Where uh Ned Betting goes to check in, she's like I'm just taking in the whole Caprasque uh feel. He doesn't know what that is. Yeah, Frank Capra, American filmmaker, you know, Mr. Smith goes to Washington and is what he called it. Okay, yeah, he does. Um but uh that caprasque feel, yeah, that like life is like there there are there's such a thing as honor and and uh and the greater good and this optimistic, you know, uh child ideal of nobility in humanity is I think the Capra feel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

One that I have lost in recent years.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Sorry, John.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

That's true. I just I I I used to think adults ran this world and I have learned that they do not.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

Everyone has their own personal. Potter, whether it be a person or a circumstance or something that they feel like they're constantly battling to get past or over with and is constantly holding them back.

SPEAKER_04 22:11

It's your arch nemesis, whatever that may be.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Whether it's a person or it's just something that you continue to butt heads with, something that just keeps standing in the way of you enjoying having a wonderful life.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

It was really just enjoying your life.

SPEAKER_04 22:25

Whatever that noun may be.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Yes. That's deep. It's deep shit. Speaking of deep, um, I think we're gonna take a few more minutes to uh uh fill my now empty glass uh and get ready to imbibe more after this.

SPEAKER_04 22:42

Hey there listener. This is Michael with Imbibe Cinema and the Blue Whiskey Independent Film Festival. Did you know that Imbibe Cinema isn't just a podcast? We've also got a variety of articles and reviews available to read on our website, plus a streaming membership that gives you access to a new batch of independent films every month. Become an Imbibe Cinema member today at watch.imbibesinema.com. That's watch.imbibesinema.com. Thanks for supporting and imbibing the various content we offer. Now, back to the show.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

I'm starting my third. This is the the the the the uh Furban or the Fizz Fizz. It's Fiz Urban.

SPEAKER_04 23:27

Furbin.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

Fizzurbin? That sounds sounds like Kyle Urban. Yeah, or or Keith Urban.

SPEAKER_04 23:32

Or fizzywig. Or is Kyle Urban the person? I don't know who Kyle is. I don't know. Kyle Keith. Keith Urban is is I think Kyle is Kyle Urban is somebody created by the Fiz Urban.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Somebody drank Furzurban on Christmas and made sweet tweet finish in the pub and the big Kyle Urban.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

No, there are multiple Kyles and then there's the one that lives in the city.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

And that's Kyle Urban. And there we go.

SPEAKER_05 23:58

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

I'm Jonathan C. Leggett, and I'm here along with Michael Dolan.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

Trisha Leggett.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

And we are discussing what I have lovingly called our Christmas medleys. Christmas Medleys. Enjoying this podcast, please subscribe or follow us on all of your favorite podcast providers to get new episodes as soon as we release them. Rate andor leave us a review to help our show reach that larger audience. You can also follow Imbibe Cinema on Facebook, the Instagram, and now threads. Ooh. I know. Just don't pull it.

SPEAKER_04 24:39

Just yeah, just or actually pull at that thread? Pull at the thread? Would that be like go there? Or like don't pull it, like don't go to threads. No, that's a good point. You should pull that thread.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

I don't know, because then it seems like it's unraveling. Like this sentence.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

If you unravel my sweater, pull the thread as I walk away.

SPEAKER_05 25:01

No.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Did I just lose you guys with Green Day? Ooh. That is tasty. Alright. So the other two films we we we finished discussing uh It's a Wonderful Life. It'll probably pop back up periodically throughout the rest of this. But uh I think the other two films, um you know, The Holiday and The Ref, um are just absolutely wonderful modern day I say modern day, but I think both of them were made in the early aughts.

SPEAKER_03 25:31

2006 is the holiday.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

And the reference I want to say ninety-four.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Good gravy.

SPEAKER_04 25:37

Now the good gravy it it is having a big anniversary of the year.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Yeah, this is this is the 30th anniversary. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

The holiday was made before we met. Or no, about the same time we met, maybe. No, it came out that year, I think. Oh, the year the year that we met. We met, yes, okay. You and I met. No, I knew I knew Michael Breyer.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Yes, clearly.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

We met in 1984. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

When you went, not that you were aware of it. Um I was not. Yeah, you were clearly not aware of it.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

He doesn't remember it much.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

Like like you do. Um, but uh so you know, uh, I know that at least as it relates to the ref, uh, that is a huge uh holiday film for my family. I know it's a huge holiday film for your family. Yeah. Um thanks to Trisha. Really?

SPEAKER_05 26:24

That was special.

SPEAKER_04 26:26

That was uh who else would have introduced it to the family?

SPEAKER_03 26:29

I guess I do introduce inappropriate things into our family circle.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

That's my how did how did you come across the ref in order to introduce it to the family then?

unknown 26:37

I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

Okay. So I I I I'm reasonably sure that my father got uh got this from a blockbuster and brought it home and and and we watched it once as a family, and then if memory serves me correctly, we ended up watching it like four times that Christmas. Wow. Um because it meant so like you know, uh the rest of the family came over for like Christmas Eve, and we're like, oh, we're we're re-renting this because you know you guys now need to see this. Like everybody had to see it.

SPEAKER_04 27:09

I mean, and we had that as well, because I know we watched it as a family first, and then uh Christmas Eve with um our aunt and uncle and and cousins, we were like, you guys have to see this. Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

No, and like we watched it, it was like a tradition for a while, and then and then people started having children. Then we're like, we can't we can't use this now.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

Well, depending on the age of the child, they're not gonna understand.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

Yeah, but there's a lot of the F-word because it is um a Dennis Leary film. Yes. Dennis dialect is is yes, Leary speakers. Like not in a whole Mary Poppins kind of way.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Yeah. That would be that would be a whole different movie now that the Leary is doing then.

SPEAKER_04 27:47

Sounds like a great SNL sky.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Yes. Leary speak. You just get Dennis Leary and Lynn Manuel Moran.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

Oh my god, do that. Somebody get up there.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

I'm gonna write an SNL right now. Like we should be doing that right now.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

Yeah. So anyway, uh it's one of the movies that our family quotes a lot.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

To this day.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

Because they're great moments like um uh Glynnis John's character is the grandma. Oh also in Mary Poppins. Oh, weird. Oh, wow, we just tied that back together. She uh she is a terrible person, basically. Yeah. And there's a point where uh Dennis Leary's like, your husband ain't dead, lady. He's hiding. Yep. We've used that a lot.

SPEAKER_04 28:31

Well, and the best part too, I think, about some of the quotes in that is that they they lend themselves to actual like responses to actual things that happen at the holidays. Stop annoying me.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

It's Christmas.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

Exactly. Or like, you know, um uh a common question would be, hey, when are we gonna open presents?

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Let's open them in the morning, it'll be more festive.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

Poor John just keeps asking it. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 28:52

Like common questions, or like, and this isn't exclusive to the holidays. This is basically whenever any gift is given and there's a card. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

Gary and Mary and Connie and John.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

We've actually added that to the end when we have a group gift. Oh, yeah. We have to list everybody's name, we just add those people to the end. But yeah, it's about family.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Yeah, yes, and dysfunctional dysfunctional family over the holidays. Yeah, the son is off at a boarding school. Um, and not only is he at a military boarding school, but he is pretty much running the military school.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

Blackmailing J.K. Simmons. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

I love that. I love J.K. Simmons for many reasons. Yes. Um, but you know, uh you you you've got a uh a child who does not feel uh loved at home. You've got a uh mother and father who are constantly bickering because they just cannot seem to see eye to eye. They cannot seem to see um you know what the other is is is getting at. The they're in therapy, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

And I think this is a theme for a lot of uh family-oriented uh holiday movies where there's trouble with family, is as uh frustrating as they are. Family in the end has got your back. Yeah, yeah, there's love. And yeah, we might not understand each other, we might uh be at odds, but we are family and it's Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

And and and let's be honest, you know, he uh Dennis Leary's character is posing to the rest of the family. Uh he's he's a uh a cat burglar who ends up using their house to escape the law. Um, but then the rest of the family arrives because it's Christmas and you know the the family is there. He poses as their therapist. And what is interesting is that in posing as their therapist and being this outside source for them to both dump thing information and they confide in him in a way that they are both reluctant to do to their actual therapist. No, the the ref is a fantastic movie, whether whether you are you know uh trying to boycott Kevin Spacey or not, um I highly recommend if you have not seen it, it it will become a family favorite of all of yours.

SPEAKER_04 31:01

Yes, the the it's a it's a great ensemble movie. Everybody in every character, I mean, even doesn't even matter how small the character is, and that's one of the things I think that makes it so great. It's every character has uh has got something to bring to the story and um and does so really, really well, and they're all memorable, I feel.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Yeah, and everybody like you can relate. There's there's a heightened bit that relates to something that you've experienced either with your family or just with the holiday in general, and it's just heightened to an extreme that it's just really funny.

SPEAKER_04 31:40

Yeah. Um and then they watch It's a Wonderful Life in the movie. They're trying to watch It's a Wonderful Life actually plays a very big part in it.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Yes. Thankfully. Thankfully, because otherwise he'd go away for a very long time.

SPEAKER_04 31:53

It's really It's a Wonderful Life saves him. And like It's a Wonderful Life as well. I know I mentioned this before. Um where the whole town comes together to save George Bailey. The whole town comes together to save Dennis Larry. Dennis Larry. What is his character's name? Gus.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Gus. Oh, yeah. Gussie! Yeah, Gussie. Gussie. Oh my god. No, my mom, even once at a party, is like, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, but the corpse still has the floor.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

I think they said that at your 30th birthday.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Yes, they did. And that was my mom.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Where where Trisha said goodbye to her 20s in the only way Trisha would, which is a funeral. A funeral.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

I had it done to my 20s. And then I got to will stuff out, which was great. I got rid of some stuff.

SPEAKER_04 32:42

Yeah, there were there were there were a lot of speakers that spoke to some eulogies. It was um I got some it was dark.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

I bequeathed stuff. Yeah, it was good. But everybody looks good in black, and we got to drink, and hell, people crashed that party.

SPEAKER_04 32:55

Yeah, everybody had fun. Everybody had fun.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

It was a good party. No, it was good.

SPEAKER_04 32:59

It was a good theme.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Uh morbidity is my wife's love language.

SPEAKER_04 33:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

So the holiday? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:07

Oh, yes. Um so what uh one of the reasons why I love the holiday.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Other than the fact that you seem to love all Christmas romance. Uh that yes. Your top three that you discussed for this year are all romance.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

What would be your favorite romance?

SPEAKER_02 33:22

Christmas romance?

SPEAKER_03 33:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

Let me get back to you on that one. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

He's gonna have to fair remembering. Is it Superson Seattle? Is it while you were sleeping? There's a lot of people. Every Hallmark movie.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

While you were sleeping, would probably be my Christmas romance movie.

SPEAKER_04 33:38

Also very quotable with Glenis Glennis Johns.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

Oh yeah, she's just brilliant, is what she is.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

We're talking about a great movie. Yeah, Michael liking romance and why he likes this one specifically so much.

SPEAKER_04 33:50

I don't think I knew that it was a Nancy Myers movie. And I just was like, oh okay, this is this is uh, you know, uh holiday movie, and like most movies I feel that have like a profound effect on you, you go into it and you see it and you don't expect that. And um this was just a movie I just got completely lost in. I got completely lost in the characters, and I found it very um very different um too, just in the in at least at the time of you know, the the storytelling that I was constantly seeing, like the same like formula. And um it uh it kind of threw me a little bit. And then of course, you know, as I'm watching the credits, I see that it's a Nancy Myers movie. I was like, oh right. So I was very, very excited because I l I love the Nancy Myers movies.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

I do uh find it interesting when you talk about how like the typical um format of these type of films. I do think it's interesting you're watching two stories, but uh you don't get the uh hopping back and forth as much as you tell one and then you kind of tell the other and then you go back. I mean, there is hopping back and forth.

SPEAKER_04 34:57

Absolutely, but they're they're intertwined, and a lot of that is because um, you know, like on multiple levels, they do check in with one another. I mean, they're never really on screen together until the very, very end of the film. Iris played by Kate Winslet. Her brother, Jude Law, uh play well, Jude Law plays the character, but Graham ends up falling for um Cameron Diaz's character, uh, Amanda. Uh Amanda and Iris are on the phone, and then um I can't believe you slept with her. Yeah, Graham calls this is still Amanda. Yep, okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Can you hold on one second? I I told her there were no men in this town, and then you go and like, nope, still Amanda. Oh god.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Yeah, no, that that that scene is absolutely beautiful. I I I loved everything about uh just I mean Kate Winslet is an absolute she's somebody I would watch eat uh uh a a bowl of cereal. I mean, she's she's fascinating. The the the one that gets me in the relationship between Cameron Diaz or Amanda and Jude Law Graham is specifically when she keeps picking up his phone and seeing girls' names or women's names uh on on the phone. Right. And just the the scene that that uh I was reminding Trisha of when uh before we started, when she decides to surprise him at his place, and he comes to the door dish slightly disheveled and is shows that he is reluctant to let her into the house. And immediately you're like, oh God, he's now we do set the stage with the fact that he does say he doesn't I'm not I'm in a weird place, you know, this is not a relationship that's gonna last more than two weeks.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

Yep. And uh and then you also have her uh uh she's uh come out of a relationship where she was cheated on. Yes, and so that's colors her perception of men in the world.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

And also came from a broken household. Right. So she what I mean, uh uh there's a whole monologue that she has at one point where she starts to say, all right, let's let's imagine that we start having this relationship that that spans the distance. I go back to to LA and you stay here in London. You know, what's to say that we maybe we meet in London, or maybe we meet in New York, or maybe we try this out, and over the next six months this happens, and then we start fighting because we never see each other, and like she's literally playing out a horrible relationship in her head because that is that's how it goes. Yeah, that's she she plays it out in her head so much fulfilling prophecy self-fulfilling prophecy. But the so she arrives at his place and he's disheveled, and then all of a sudden, Sophia and Olivia come to the door, right? And it is his daughter's. The the whole film leads you on this And does a very good job at that too.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

Letting you think he's a womanizer, he is, you know, he's just shows up drunk at his sister's place to crash because he's all the time.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

Yeah, and because it's the only time he's away from his kids and they are with the grandparents. Oh my gosh, that's so sad. And so, like, it is beautiful that yeah, Nancy Myers leads you down this path, making you think one way, and then just like sweeping you out from the feet and going, like, look, don't don't judge a book by its cover. Don't don't don't go down that path.

SPEAKER_03 38:13

This is a wholesome individual who is grieving and and sorry, so like the touch of humanity that you see in um uh on the other side of the pond is the fact that you have a family that has had a loss. But then you go to LA and that would be all Arthur's character, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. This man who has lived a full life and is just this adorable human being, and he's all alone.

SPEAKER_04 38:45

Eli Wallach.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Yes. Just missing his wife and and does get the the acknowledgement that he doesn't feel he deserves because he thinks he's going to go into a room with 13 people.

SPEAKER_04 38:56

Right. And it will be embarrassing, and he's just like ever so humble.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

Yes. Yeah. Very, very beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 39:05

Nobody remembers him, is how he feels. Right. Right. And the whole conversation about meat cute is just so, so cute. I mean, uh, this is oh, this is our meat cute. And you're like, wait, what? Yeah, yeah. So he explains the term.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

The term yeah. And then there's the point where uh right shortly thereafter, where he says, Where in England are you from? And she says, Surrey, and he goes, Oh, Carrie Grant's from Surrey. She's like, Oh yeah, he was. How'd you know that? Oh, he told me once on your point.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

Yes. And the the continuing element of the Santa Ana wins, uh all throughout uh LA. Yeah. Yep. The the fact that Jack Black uh specifically is the one who calls out the Santa Ana wins, and it is the Santa Ana wins that continue to I don't want to say plague them, but like show up whenever they are they they should be, you know, they've had their meat cute. Their meat cute is the Santa Ana wins and it keeps recurring. Um and I'm trying to think what the that same element is other than the the drive to the cottage. And the fact that Cameron Diaz has to walk it one time, runs it a second time just to get to Jude.

SPEAKER_04 40:21

Well, I know there's the concept thing the the thing where she can't cry. She can't she's not um she like there are these moments. Yeah, there are these moments where like all she wants to do is cry and she just can't bring herself to do it, and then it just like sneaks up on her at the end. It just happens, and then it's like clearly this is really important. Yes. There's so many moments in this movie by Nancy Myers um where I feel she shows instead of tells.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

Which is again what makes this such a a profound film.

SPEAKER_04 41:02

We greatly appreciate all of our listeners for choosing this podcast and for supporting independent film. So please keep an ear out for our next season, season three, of the Imbibe Cinema podcast. Take it away, John.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

To check out show notes or to drop us a note, please visit imbibesinema.com. I'm Jonathan C. Leggan, and thank you for inviting me.

SPEAKER_05 41:25

Cheers.